They are aws and athiri in origin with element of arphaxad [18], On the eve of the Rashidun Caliphate's conquest of the Levant, 634 AD, Syria's population mainly spoke Aramaic; Greek was the official language of administration. _ Story of Aad _tafseer. The tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and demanded a sign from God. Large numbers of Bani Rasheed are also found on the Arabian Peninsula. Tribes originating in the Arabian Peninsula. The most striking thing about the Thamud was the huge buildings and structures they built into the sides of mountains. In fact, we even know the scripts they used! The Edomites can also be a separate nation and through the passage time they shared history, tradition, and custom with the remnants of the Thamud. I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. Also, 28:40 is referring to Pharaoh and the verse tells us to BEHOLD how Allah SWT dealt with him without us being present to see it. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. Asalam Alie Kum I dont know and this is a good aspect of the Quran; it does not go into such things and instead instructs us to focus on the message and not the nitty gritty. But the Thamud cut its hamstring or otherwise wounded it. Here you can read various translations of verse 38. where they used to live. 5. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. After all, camels were and still are pretty common in that part of the world. al-Hijr, the second most important centre of the Nabataean empire, is the title of the 15th chapter of the Quran. We must look at them, ponder over the signs of Allah and take heed. [12] The temple inscriptions (in Ancient Greek and Nabataean Aramaic) state that it was constructed by a priest named dt of the "Thamd of Robath" for lh, apparently the patron deity of the tribe, with the Roman government's support. Claim that the Edomites are not Thamud thus the verses are irrelevant. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Quran and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings, The Issue of the Qurans Teaching on Islamic Monotheism. their country was called Arabia Petraea, the rocky; and their metropolis Petra, the rock: Jerom says that they that inhabited the southern part of the country and dwelt in caves cut out of the rock, to screen them from the heat of the sun: or, thou that dwellest in the circumferences of the rock F16; round about it, on the top of it, in a tower built there, as Kimchi and Ben Melech. The Thamd are infrequently mentioned in contemporary indigenous Arabian sources, although two Safaitic inscriptions carved some time between the first century BCE and the fourth century CE refer to "the year of the war between Gm and the tribe of Thamd [snt rb gm l md]". What are the Sunnahs and etiquettes that we should >>> , - ?____ Fatwa . Our editors will review what youve submitted and determine whether to revise the article. Thus, if the Quran is in error about the identities of whoever carved out the structures in Madian Salehor wherever else the Thamud livedthe Bible is also in error when it claims a pre-Nabatean people carved out structures in the mountains of Edom. you will be utterly despised. In light of these points, in my opinion the only reasonable conclusion is one of the following: 1) That the dwellings of Thamud were destroyed some time between The Expedition of Tabuk and today. Ad and Thamud were two great civilizations destroyed by God due to their excessive wickedness. Also, the Prophet () did in fact mention the dwellings in a separate hadith. http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649 Of course, only Allah knows the truth. Will you forbid us to worship what our fathers worshiped? from there I will bring you down, Unfortunately, both nations rejected their prophets. 1. [27:49]. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. What else do you have in mind And As-Saihah (torment - awful cry) overtook the wrong-doers, so they lay (dead), prostrate in their homes, As if they had never lived there. And does the verses before say the Arabs could see the Arabs loft pillars or just saying what they used to do 89:6-8 The wordings themselves state so and all the tafaseer also state this. The story of Miraj- Isra _ Suhih al Bukhari, Can you brush your teeth in Ramadan? I think its just like 43:47, 21:12, 32:26 and 37:73. This bears enough similarity to the description of the Thamd dwellings in theQurn to induce certain authors to claim that they are the houses of the Thamd. They were able to build great structures and buildings, They had children to carry on their progeny. [16] It is possible that the Thamud were not one tribe, and that other tribes took on the name of Thamd after the original tribe by that name had gone extinct. God destroyed them. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. Why? Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. The Qurn mentions the Thamd as examples of the transitoriness of worldly power. The Edomites and Thamud If they were made for dead bodies, it stands to reason that we should find at least one dead body in them. "[22] The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period, especially the first century CE. Honestly I dont understand the confusion at and all of it has been dealt with above. Although, implausible, but not impossible. And take for yourselves palaces and fortresses that you may abide eternally?Chapter 26, Verses 128 129. Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them, 4. declares the LORD. You have no god other than Him. Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. They wanted to prove that (scientifically, of course) that Salih was not telling the truth. Not every opinion that he held was necessarily a divine revelation. Hence, they had become very rich. One-third of the tombs, which are amongst the largest, are clearly dated to between 0-75 CE. God knows best. The following commentary on the verses from Obadiah, found in biblestudytools.com, is rather revealing. [3] As the "Ta-mu-di", the peoples are mentioned together with the Ephah, the "Ibadidi", and the "Marsimani" as part of "the distant desert-dwelling Arabs who knew neither overseers nor officials and had not brought their tribute to any king". They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. And their responses reflected their advancement in knowledge. Rise, let us go against her for battle These things had huge doors, elaborate engravings, complex designs, and must have been an amazing sight in their time. (2/434), As for the related Hadith reports related to the incident during the Tabuk expedition they either do not mention Thamud by name or say. Thus, at the end, the people of al-Hijr are mentioned. If you keep that mindset, youll go far, Inshallah. According to the Quran, they were hit by a blast that destroyed them. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. She states that all we have are A few papyri, which are mainly private contracts, and thousands of graffiti scattered on the rocks, 90% of which contain only the name of the individual who wrote it, his fathers name, and a formulaic greeting. Prior to the Muslim conquest of Egypt, Egypt was under Greek and Roman influence. (LogOut/ [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. Do you think that there inside of there buildings had to of caved in The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. As for objection number one, as far as my research has shown, the only reason that the carved-out structures are considered tombs is due to various rectangular carved out niches inside them where the dead bodies were to be placed. Thus, we can say that perhaps this ones were the Nabataeans. What do we intend to get out of the statement that they were more in number and strength in what they left behind. There was a great influx of Arab tribes into Khuzestan from the 16th to the 19th century, including the migration of the Banu Ka'b and Banu Lam from the Arabian desert. Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the land. Now we come to the archeological matters concerning the Nabateans. Archaeological Site of Al-Hijr (Madin Slih), Forty Hadith al-Nawawi in English and Arabic, Al-Aqidah al-Tahawiyyah in English and Arabic, Forty Hadith on Purification of the Heart. In Umayya's account, there is no Salih. This is not but from the customs of the former peoples and we will not be punished.Chapter 26, Verses 136-136. So what we see are Hellenistic structures built by Midianites taken over from the Thamud. Or is that verse just saying what they used to do in the vally By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established. These verses can be found in multiple books, we will focus on Obadiah and Jeremiah. Before the destruction came to them, Hud and his small group of followers escaped the area and were spared the punishment. [15], But despite the presence of a tribe called the Thamud as late as the fourth century, sixth-century Arab poets whose works are preserved in post-Islamic sources were already referring to the Thamud as an ancient and long-lost tribe whose very name recalled the transience of all things. According to Dr. Nehme, a senior research scientist at the French National Center for Scientific Research, the Nabateans have left us with almost no written material that would shed any light on their origins or even daily affairs. If the Nabateans carved out the structures on the hills and mountains of Petra and Median Saleh, as the Christians allege, then both the Quran and the Bible are in error, which I dont agree with. If the Bible tells us nothing more, at least it illustrates that carving out structures on mountains predated the Nabateans, and that is all we need to refute the Christian allegation against the Quran. ""- . People descended with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, to the valley of Hijr, the land of Thamud, and they drank from the wells and kneaded flour with it. As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. [4] Historian Israel Eph'al questions the plausibility of Sargon's account, as the briefness of Sargon's account seems to be at odds with the fact that such a campaign deep into Arabia would have been one of the longest wars in Assyrian history, and because no mention of plunder is provided. Thats it. Answer (1 of 7): Yes They were called the people of Aad and they were ancient arabs. Then, his progeny, and his people, came to be known by the name of ` Ad. [21], A hadith tradition preserved in the a al-Bukhr collection narrates that the Islamic prophet Muhammad called Hegra "the land of Thamud" and did not allow his troops to drink from its wells or to use its water, and to never enter its ruins "unless weeping, lest occur to you what happened to them. From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. Rather, it tells us to look at the region in which Thamud had existed as well as the many generations after them. Furthermore, there is also proof that they had some elements of true Islam in their faith. The earliest known mention of this new 'Thamud' in historical sources is is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian king Sargon II, which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians. p.190. Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the term could possibly mean ruined too. Verses 15:80-83describe its inhabitants as carving their homes out of mountains and being decimated by a loud shriek characteristics ascribed by the Quran elsewhere to the people of Thamud2. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they . After the given time was over, an earthquake shook the land violently and destroyed the people of Thamud in one cry. Corrections? Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. Al-Arab al-Ba'ida (Arabic: ), "The Extinct Arabs", were an ancient group of tribes of prehistory that included the 'd, the Thamud, the Tasm, the Jadis, the Imlaq (who included branches of Banu al-Samayda), and others. 4. The Nabateans have not left us with any records, thus inscriptions become the primary dating of these structures. 5. It is likely, then, that most of the artifacts in this region belonged to the many generations of those who came after them as the Quran mentions. As their material wealth increased so, too, did their evil ways while their virtue decreased. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. When they came here, there would have been many buildings and they made their buildings alongside them and eventually, theirs outgrew the previous ones. Im also inclined to believe that these nine families were the direct descendents of those believers who escaped the land of the Aad with Hud. It doesnt speak about being touched or untouched. This is an article I recently wrote. from there I will bring you down, 7. Over time, some say nine generations, these people developed a society that was very powerful, wealthy, and influential. Thirdly, the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith on the topic. The Akkadians are the Arameans who are the Chaldeans who are the Nabateans who absorbed The Amorites. Therefore, the Aad were a society that sprung up from the survivors of the flood, perhaps some of the same people who rode in the Ark with Prophet Noah (AS). The scripts used in these inscriptions is mostly Hismaic and Safaitic writing systems native to Arabia, and quite distinct from the one later adopted for writing the Quran. As such, missionaries and polemicists have claimed that the mistakes of Muslim folklore, or contradictory applications of the name Thamud to archaeological discoveries, suggest an historical mistake in the Quran. They may have later acquired Hellenistic techniques and applied them on their structures. In the worst cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah. The prophet was a man of his times and of his own personal experiences, he could have attributed what he saw to the Thamud due to the fact that the Thamud lived on the exact region as these ruins. The Quran and Sunnah do not identify any specific existing ruins as belonging to the first ancient tribe of Thamud, although some Muslim historians and popular folklore have done so. 7. The fact that these structures are still around today, after nearly 4000 years is a testament to their quality and design. The Aad and the Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the Quran. Here is the summary of his opinion: ( ) which only proves that al-Hijr was also the land of the Thamud which is not a problem. - _ tafseer. And Ad and Thamud-it must be clear to you from their dwelling places! One may argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e. The Nabataean alphabet was adopted by Arabs to the south, and evolved into modern Arabic script around the 4th century. 3) The tombs were in fact built by Thamud as houses and the Nabateans simply inscribed them later. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. Possible answer: Their messenger lived before or even during the time of Isa (as), this also the time where this site flourished, but when they denied him, Allah did not destroy them immidiantely. My people, this camel belongs to God, a sign for you, so leave it to pasture on God's earth and do not harm it, or you will soon be punished." He said: ., Do not enter (the dwelling places) of these people unless you enter weeping, but if you weep not, then do not enter upon them, lest you be afflicted with what they were afflicted with [Bukhari]. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. The word atharan or assar as loosely written in Urdu literally means effects or reactions or remnants left behind as an escape of a crime scene where clues or signs point to. They mainly settled in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. [25], Some Islamic sources claim that the Banu Thaqif tribe, an Arab tribe from Ta'if in the period of Muhammad, was descended from a survivor of the Thamud (sometimes a slave of Salih). http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/. Assalam alikum so is 89:9 present tense or past tense the altheana jabbu al sakrah bilwadi bit and you are saying that the thamud dwellings have gone destroyed after the prophets time, And Is madain al saleh wadi alQura or is wadi alqura some where else, And do you think there houses were destroyed before or after ibn kathir and could the land of thamud be petra ir yemon because there is a town called thamud in yemon, And does 27:52 mean there dwellings were destroyed or empty and could 89:9 mean there dwellings just of been caves in the prophets the outside gone fallen if you know what I mean and can. Follow the great majority of Muslims today? The caliphate also allowed the migration of Arab tribes to Egypt. Compounding the confusion is the fact that the tribal name Thamud is applied today to a broad section of different peoples throughout history, not only to those mentioned in the Quran. I would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad. 85 percent of the region is still untouched, and hidden. 4) That the ORIGINAL dwellings in the valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them further. Sargon defeated these tribes, according to his Annals, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria. So away with Thamud! What the Prophet () and the Sahaba went through during Tabuk was overall the joint place of Thamud and Nabateans and more specifically the exact well from where the she-camel drank. This is attested by Safaitic inscriptions (beginning in the 1st century BCE) and the many Arabic personal names in Nabataean inscriptions. 15:75 can also be interpreted as a HISTORICAL sign/reminder when referring to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. In sura 15, there seems to be a chronological order: At first the story of Adam (as) is mentioned (26-50), then the story of Abraham (as) and Lot (as) (51-77), then the story of the people of al-Rass,i.e. They were successors to the People of Noah. Syed Suleman Nadvi discusses this in Tarikh Ard al-Quran vol.2. However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. However, there survived long after that, people who still called themselves Thamd. Sorry for such a late response. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. There is no possibility that these were houses. 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